Vanessa dies midway through this season, in what is very much a showcase episode for you. To what degree did Dario Scardapane and the other producers loop you in on plans for her sendoff?
It was quite in the beginning of season two. Dario made a point of calling me and explaining his point of view on why he’s doing it and where he’s gonna take it. They made sure that I felt good about it, and that I understood why — and I truly did. Because, in some ways, this had to do with really pushing Wilson [Vincent D’Onofrio] to a place of complete madness. And that’s a price that they needed to create for the rest of the show.
I won’t lie — immediately we had a call, me and Vincent, and [he said], “I’m trying to persuade him to put her in a coma for a long, long, long, long time.” [Laughs] But that was not working the same way.
And then later on, we discussed the way she’s going to go down, why she’s doing what she’s doing, and really giving her a nice goodbye — to understand where she’s coming from and tie it all together, in a way.
Her death really does shake Wilson. It leads to that wonderful line from Vincent about how he’d accepted that love was a prison, but never thought he’d be trapped in it alone . . .
It is devastating, because on one hand the “bad guys” always must pay the price. We have to be optimistic in that way. But also, the thing that always worked for them in really creating some interest was the fact that they have such an amazing love — and loyalty, which is something we value as human beings beyond a lot of other virtues. For them to lose that love, it’s really heartbreaking for the audience, I hope.
As larger-than-life as superhero stories inherently are, is that sort of grounded humanity the key to Daredevil’s particular appeal?
It was set up from the first season of the first show on Netflix. I think that’s the way it was written by Steven DeKnight [who developed the original series]. I could already tell, then and there, that it was so unique in that sense. And then I believe it was the second season where there were questions about virtue and God. There were a lot of themes that were really digging deep into humanity. What is it, beyond the action? I know people love the action, and the action is superb, but it wouldn’t hold as much [appeal] without the investigation of what is human . . .
The characters are not just superheroes with abilities beyond, they’re really human in some crucial way. For me, Vanessa is really intriguing. I could talk about her forever, and the connection to Fisk . . . the way she is completely in love and willing to go to the dark side because of that, with complete determination to be his support — and even protector, in a way.
I believe that she had come to the boxing match [where she was fatally wounded] to — it might sound crazy — but in a way she comes to protect him. Because she knows it’s inevitable [the repercussions from his actions]. So she thinks, “OK, if it’s inevitable, then I’d rather pay the price. I’d rather go down for him.” That’s a remarkable quality in a human being and a character. At the same time, the juxtaposition is that they’re villains.
Ultimately, what traits did Vanessa and Wilson bring out in each other that would have stayed hidden had they never met?
It’s funny . . . There was a beautiful scene where Fisk is coming back at the beginning of season one of Born Again. Vincent was sitting in front of me, he was doing this monologue, and he was playing around and he was being very emotional. As my character, I was listening to him, thinking where this will go. And I couldn’t pull away from this image of him being like a donut with a hole in it, and me being the inside of that hole. Since then, I’ve been always laughing that he’s the donut and I’m the inside. I need his protection as the whole. I need his mass, his energy, his . . . whatever he is . . . to protect me, to not be so exposed. And he needs her to fill him up. But somehow, maybe, it’s not enough — and he’s gonna pay a price for that.
Much as it may have been disappointing to say goodbye to Vanessa, is there a certain satisfaction in completing a character’s arc, as opposed to leaving it open-ended?
Yeah, there’s a conclusion. A beginning, middle and end. She has a really beautiful arc — from meeting him in the gallery and selling that white painting, into questioning if she wants to even dive into this relationship, then diving in and questioning being alone in a relationship where she’s left outside. And then the deal [that Fisk and Vanessa made in their relationship], which is “loyalty for truth.”
Then, we jump forward a bunch of years, we are now in Born Again, and Vanessa is a boss and she’s dealing with the empire, she has her own take on how things should run and she has somewhat control over him — but she’s not using it. She’s just, like, balancing it with love and acceptance. And there is a really beautiful balance between them; then slowly she realizes, “Wait a minute, that ‘deal’ will never really be fulfilled.” Because nothing is enough for him. She’s even not enough for him. Once she realizes that, there’s a collapse in the way she handles things, and maybe there’s guilt and questioning of the future — the feeling of dread, of something bad is gonna happen and not being able to deal with it. Codependency comes in, too . . . all that good stuff!
And then the beautiful end, which ties it back into the beginning [via Vanessa reflecting on their journey while fighting for her life in the hospital]. I’m pleased with the way it came out.
You’ve done an array of TV shows and films over the years. Is it a markedly different experience doing a film — where you know the beginning, middle and end right from the start — vs. doing a series — where writers, directors and actors are, to some degree, flying by the seat of their pants from episode to episode?
Yes, I think so. First of all, I noticed that there’s a serious relationship between our show and the audience. They voice themselves very clearly, and I think that is listened to. We do listen in some ways. The fans are really what made the show come back, and now are really igniting some fire underneath it. So, thank you!
But also, the difference between TV and film is the auteur. Even though both of them are teamwork, on TV it’s even more so because you don’t have one director. You jump from one personality to another personality, from one artistic taste to another artistic taste. And maybe someone doesn’t quite understand the things you’ve done before, so now you have to communicate that — and there are a lot of discussions. It’s not one man running the show.
Dario has talked about how the narrative in season one and two — with a populist leader empowering law enforcement to drag people off the streets — reflects real-world events, but it was unintentional. Was it strange to see some of the show’s stories suddenly mirrored in reality?
Oh, it was never part of the discussion at all, because we were filming it way ahead of time. I think he was surprised and we all kind of feel weird, because it’s really not about that. But, you know, it’s funny how art imitates life and life imitates art . . .
Well, Daredevil’s “Anti-Vigilante Task Force” is a storyline that was plucked straight from the comic books, and it originated decades ago . . .
Decades. [As opposed to tapping into modern events,] I think it’s the method of violence, it’s the method of power — what happens when power is achieved in ways that are uncontrolled.
Daredevil: Born Again, streaming on Disney+
MEMORABLE ROLES:
In her native Israel, Ayelet Zurer broke out in the early 2000s, winning an Israeli Academy Award for dramedic character study Nina’s Tragedies in 2003, followed by a Best Actress trophy from the Israeli Academy of Television in 2005 for therapy drama BeTipul (later remade by HBO as In Treatment). Those accolades led to calls from Hollywood, where Zurer appeared in Steven Spielberg’s Munich, before sharing the screen with Tom Hanks as scientist Dr. Vittoria Vetra in Angels & Demons, and playing Superman’s doomed mother in Man of Steel. On the small screen, she’s popped playing a couples therapist who really had her work cut out for her in season three of Netflix’s You, and as the title character in Apple TV thriller Losing Alice.
CURRENT GIG:
One of Marvel’s most lauded superhero sagas, Daredevil streamed for three seasons on Netflix (2015-2018), before it was Born Again on Disney+ in 2025. Season two of the revival has seen blind lawyer by day, vigilante by night Matt Murdock (Charlie Cox) fight to save New York City from the police-state tyranny of crime boss turned mayor Wilson Fisk (Vincent D’Onofrio). Flanking Fisk at every turn has been his chic, cerebral, Machiavellian wife Vanessa (Ayelet Zurer), who, alas, met her tragic end in a recent episode.